Public sentiment is predominantly negative, reflecting deep sorrow and outrage over the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Many commenters express empathy for affected civilians and hostages while criticizing Israeli leadership, particularly Netanyahu, for prioritizing military objectives over humanitarian concerns. Despite varied opinions on the responsibility of Hamas, there is a unanimous call for immediate humanitarian aid and intervention to alleviate the suffering on all sides, revealing an urgent desire for justice and compassion amidst widespread despair.

Israeli Government

Hamas

International Community

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LocalSignificant629

The diversions every 5 minutes by our shit media enables this.

cornbreadsdirtysheet

I would say that it's been obvious, but shine as much light on this as possible.  Advocate for journalists to be allowed into Gaza.  The world needs to see images and video of what is happening on the ground.

bhenghisfudge

The fact that they denied the famine for weeks despite thousands of pieces of evidence in 4K showing Palestinians skin and bones dying of starvation, only to finally say, "Okay, there is indeed a famine" the second Hamas posted a video of severely emaciated Israeli hostages, proves once again that Israelis do not consider Palestinians as human beings and that this is indeed a genocide.

Shaami_learner

My take on this is that the two fake spats with Iran recently were both staged to enable the Gaza slaughter to continue

Magic__E

Not to kill as many people as possible, but to stay in power. Netanjahu wouldn't be in power (and maybe in prison) without that war. He doesn't really care about his people or the people in Gaza, he cares just about his own gain.

ConsistentAd7859

Prolonging the war also keeps Netanyahus fragile government together.

With the conflict, Netanyahus would be done in israeli politics - and would have to face his looming corruption charges.

So there are both political and ideological reasons to keep the war going - and perpraring a full scale genocide and massive human suffering. And mostly just because Bibi is vain and wants to stay in power.

PoulCastellano

It's so obvious that genocide was always their desire, the Zionists who really run Israel. And they have so much pull that the world mostly stands by with their hands in their pockets.
Ditto for multiple African slaughters. We hardly even hear about them. 
Thanks for posting about this. We can't forget our brothers and sisters, we all come from the same place we're all family. 

Andre-italiano

"They voted for this" say the Israelis. "They voted for this" is what I say about Israelis.

There is no doubt that that Israeli government is engaged in genocide with the full support of the Israeli people. They are convinced that they will get away with it. The world will move on, and anybody who mentions Gaza will be labeled an antisemite while the Israelis steal the land and the natural gas deposits off the coast of Gaza.

Ornery_Cookie_359

I agree with you but I think there's an additional point to make.


It's also about inflicting a trauma on the collective psyche of the population. It's how the masses are controlled. 


WW1, WW2, COVID, Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Gaza... these are the big ones which impact the global psyche. There's also the managed decline of the global economy, which puts the average person in a financially precarious situation. Then things like ICE raids and other indicators of the rising tide of fascism. Even if it doesn't affect your country right now, it doesn't mean it's not coming.


When people are fearful, anxious and stressed out, they are more vulnerable to psychological manipulation. War propaganda is an extremely potent tool to manipulate the masses.

pharmamess

This is just fact, it’s a genocide not a war

nicenyeezy

The pace is slow because it's better they bury their own dead rather than allowing mountains of bodies to show in satellite pictures.

Adora77

I just saw a short on YouTube of a captive Israeli under Hamas and he looked starved. Starved to the extent of the children we see dying everyday from the same plite. The Israeli officials were out crying their poor captives condition and all I could think was, "hey fucktards how the fuck are they supposed to feed their prisoners when you won't let them have ANY FUCKING FOOD." The fucking ignorance bro it's astounding

Educational-Hall1525

Accurate_Welder_3662

Finally someone saying it. Writing it. No conspiracy here. Just a fact. World we are living in.

Striking-Ad-6557

MysteriousBrystander

gohokies06231988

I would add that the killing of children and women is even more targeted as they see the population growth as an issue for them. They willingly target children and women to reduce those numbers and directly affect the future of the Palestinian people

Training-Run-1307

Switch “Israel” with “America” and you begin to see the full picture.

No one makes more $ than the US does while funding war. Simple as that.

L0lligag

Israel could just kill everyone there and be done with it. There’s literally no one who could that would be willing to straight up try and stop them. It would benefit no country to interfere. Only thing that stops Israel from doing this is Israel.  

I don’t think enough people understand how hard it is to not kill everyone. It takes 5x the amount of soldiers and 10x the logistics to weed through the people you’re not trying to kill. 

There’s a reason back in the day let’s go with the Mongolians just exterminating an entire population. It was way easier to do, and guess what you didn’t have to worry about rebellion, revenge, or restitution. 

First world countries don’t do that. Because they have a rebuilding process in mind after the war is over. Break em down build them back up. Not that this method always works, it’s considered more moral and is great when it does workout. 

But back to the original point. It takes a lot more effort to purge an enemy force out of a territory, while not killing every civilian in that territory. You can look at Iraq or Afghanistan the US was not trying to kill everyone there(Still lots of civilians died, but that was not the goal, why we call it collateral damage). If we were trying to kill everyone the war would have been far more easy to accomplish with that objective.

BlackMoonValmar

And people just let them. They will forever been seen as “victims” because of the Holocaust, so people believe they can never do wrong.

RennietheAquarian

Funny that the Zionist controlled UN is about to propose the two state solution in September..

Let that sink in....

astronot24

Imagine the actual death stats for children there.... it's all you can do, because "they" will never be honest about it.

Anonymous_exodus

What makes this starvation situation more despicable than others is there is a mountain of food &amp; supplies that is staged in the area just sitting there waiting to be brought in. Israeli officials tell lies saying they are't preventing help for civilians. This situation is upsetting but if I were a Jew I'd be absolutely livid about Israeli leaders giving the world legitimate reason to be antisemitic. 

ThisHandleTooHot

Everyone underestimates how difficult a guerrilla force is for a traditional army to defeat. The Palestinian resistance forces (which include, but is not exclusive too Hamas) have been preparing for this kind of situation for the last 20 years. Israel take on causalities from this resistance every day. They have a massive recruitment problem, the point that they've been wanting to draft the previously exempt ultra orthodox, and seem to be ineffective at doing anything besides murdering civilians. Even in the "Israeli controlled" Kahn Yunis, multiple ambushes on their soldiers have been occurring basically every week. People over estimate the strength of Israel and underestimate the strength of the Palestinian resistance. I genuinely don't think the IDF is capable of conquering Gaza, its already taken on thousands of causalities and completely tarnished its international reputation. The Houthi blockade caused its red sea port to shut down. They have civil unrest at the moment, and even European countries are pretending to support Palestine to try and quell their own civil unrest.

Isreal can't conquer Gaza. They are failing. They will continue to fail. They have dropped the equivalent of five nukes on an area smaller than London. They have decimated the leadership of Hamas. But they will not be able to defeat the resistance. Believing that they can plays into their propaganda, and makes people more likely to lose hope.

ThePlacidAcid

This isn't even a conspiracy.  This is the MO of Zionism; they wanted a casus belli to make Gaza unlivable, to shrug their shoulders and say "Oh well, I guess they'll have to live somewhere else and we might as well re-settle this land!  A shame for it to go to waste!"

Deliberate targeting of critical infrastructure, hospitals, schools, art centers, under flimsy excuses.  Meanwhile, settler violence in the West Bank is rising, and they are approving more and more illegal settlements.

In a few years, Zionism (a far right radical nationalist ideology that oppresses a particular ethnicity and uses them as a scapegoat for all of their problems... hmmmmm sounds familiar) will be condemned in the same breath as another political movement that has a Z in it.

Background_Drag5982

People in these comments scapegoating Netanyahu when any single PM would be doing the same. Their elections are shams, and their PMs are all moving israel to the same goal just at different rates. Progressive leaders are assassinated, and the far right coalitions outnumber the opposition greatly

The goal has always been greater israel, and in the future they’ll have invaded Lebanon (again) on pretenses of fighting Hezbollah. Then they’ll invade Syria to fight the very coalition government they financed to overthrow Assad. In fact, they’re already doing so to “protect” the Druze - while annexing the regions containing the water supply of course.

Israel is an evil nation, the closest thing we have to a modern day German Nazi regime. They’re Jewish white supremacists.

Serious-Top7925

Of course this is well known. They are deliberately killing as many children as they can, that’s genocide.

ShockFabulous7421

The Palestinian resistance has proven to be more resilient than Israel anticipated. For one there is nowhere to "clear them out to" The Arab world despite their cowardice believe a complete ethnic cleansing of the strip is a bridge to far. Also Israel, despite their endless lies and war crimes, wants to still pretend they have the most moral army in the world and are not how they are perceived to the international community. So they're doing this slow motion grinding down genocide, they believe they can get away with. Also the IDF, despite their numbers and high tech equipment, are actually not good at fighting. As was the case in other wars of conscripts fighting guerilla fighters with more heart and nothing to lose, such as how the US was defeated in Vietnam. They got their asses kicked on the ground when they tried to invade Lebanon. What they're good at is bombing and destructions of civilians and civilian infrastructure, which is what they've done relentlessly. They've killed close to half a million people, dropping more explosions equivalent to nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yet they still havent been able to complete their objectives, so they're going full Holocaust trying to starve them out. As mentioned Benzion Mileikowsky, born in Poland and raised in Pennsylvania, or Netanyahu as he calls himself. Is hellbent on staying in power. So he needs the war to continue to maintain his far-right coalition and stay out of jail for corruption.

jefe4959

IsKFCopen

Congratulations you have earned yourself another star on your Tinfoil hat there soldier. You have finally joined the ranks of us who have come to realize this and that this is way more than just a land grab. They want to obliterate their neighbors and give them no chance to survive. There are no innocents to them. You don’t see the opposition chanting death to Israel because they are blood thirsty animals. They chant it because if they don’t stop Israel their own way of life and homes will be history. Cause Israel is like a Rich abusive father that gaslights you into letting them do what they want.

Toasterdosnttoast

If they really wanted to kill as many Gazans as possible they’d conquer/clear it. 

🙄

Sir_Viva

How about Hamas release the hostages, they are continuing the war they don't care about Gazan citizens

sheppo42

I have a conspiracy that some of the wars the point isnt to win its just to kill people. I don't mean the belligerent parties, I mean the people who fund either side or both sides seem to just relish the high death counts and human suffering.

fainofgunction

Israel is trying to gain full military control, but the Gazans have a very effective guerilla force whose goal is to extend the war of attrition and whittle away at Israel's support from within the US. This is the only way possible for them to shift the power dynamics in the region, and they are willing to make huge sacrifices in order to do so. 

It seems crazy to first worlders, but if someone stole your land and was living a US-subsidized first world lifestyle on it, you might do the same.

iamblicus000

does every fucking post on here  have to be about Israel or Jews?  its so fucking boring at this point, Jesus fucking thirst STFU, I don't support Israel or anything, but the constant crying about it is fucking tiresome as hell.

WTF.  Just shut up and think about something else for a few days.  Holy shit.

SedonaVortex

Kwopp

Konval

How many IDF have been killed lately, I have not seen\herd of one so it tells me there is no one left shooting back.

Affectionate-Stay430

Hamas is artificially prolonging the war to kill as many people as possible

also, I think the number is less than half that 

Lisa d

Lsdnyc

zen_mofo

BrotatoChip04

Moloch will not be satiated until he's sipping loosh on the beach at the Trump Gaza Hotel &amp; Resort.

Raynstormm

Fair.


Hamas was attacking a music festival to kill as many people as possible.


Enjoy being bombed, Terrorist scum.

2moreX

If they wanted to kill as many people as possible, why don't they bomb Palestine 24/7?

valiumonaplane

One question: where is the difference im doing it in 2 month or +2 years if the plan is to kill the most? Can't you just kill the most in 2 month operation?

RizzKiller

isaacF85

Numerous-Duck-8544

You might be underestimating the capabilities Hamas. They have had a lot of time and money planning this war.

Bandaka

fmfan23

Given there is a Holocaust analogy (a quote though) in the original I'm going to just flair this as rule 6 allowed so I don't have to mod the comments that would otherwisse be rule 6 violations. As an aside, the post is borderline (quotes of analogies are allowed if neccesary), the comments are not.  So please for future posts and responses to them be careful about rule 6.

JeffB1517

  

"No amount of resistance from the Vietnamese guerrillas could beat the French colonial army."  

"No amount of resistance from the Algerian FLN could beat the French military."  

"No amount of resistance from the Afghan mujahideen could beat the Soviet Red Army."  

"No amount of resistance from the Yugoslav Partisans could beat Nazi Germany."  

"No amount of resistance from the Irish Republican guerrillas could beat the British Empire."  

"No amount of resistance from the Haitian revolutionaries could beat Napoleon’s forces."  

"No amount of resistance from the Cuban revolutionaries could beat Batista’s U.S.-backed military."  

"No amount of resistance from the Maquis fighters could beat Nazi-occupied France."  

"No amount of resistance from the Karenni National Defense Force could beat Myanmar’s military junta."   

"No amount of resistance from the Polish Home Army could beat Nazi Germany."

ExtremeAcceptable289

No I disagree, armed struggle can defeat the enemy. Regardless of who it is.

SuitableLeather979

again, we see the term zionism pop up.  zionism was simply a movement to allow the return jews to their homland of israel. like American Indians, jews were conquered and exiled from their native homeland. that was by the Roman empire during the time of Jesus.

Puzzled-Software5625

I wholeheartedly agree. Israel has the direct backing of a couple key players on the world stage, while Palestine has Hamas with backing by Iran. Without a major player backing up Palestine, it is simply not possible for them to achieve victory. Israel’s power is far too consolidated and those supporting them are far too powerful.

TBP64

Jews always want something for nothing.   No we cant agree, let's take away US funding and support and see how isreal survives.  Let's let the world vote, do we want isnotreal on this planet or not.   

GrumpyOldTroll1969

Ummm, that’s why it’s called resistance….

SeniorLibrainian

No. The US vs Vietnam and Afghanistan show that’s not accurate. 

carterthecomic

When it’s a jihad you’re talking about, rationality holds little sway..

Dobratri

Apart from the fact that resistance to oppression is a natural and universal right and duty, it’s hard to tell someone being r@ped to just lay down and enjoy it because the rapist is too strong to overcome. Kinda like lining up peacefully to enter a gas chamber. That’s basically what your post is suggesting.

Outrageous_Wealth_60

The Palestinians have no choice other than try to survive against the genocidal occupying forces.

PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK

That is like saying the Maji Maji rebellion will never defeat the Germans, the Mau Mau will never defeat British, the Algerian resistance will never defeat the French. I can go on and on.

Logically, a resistance can't defeat a genocidal colonial settler apartheid state like Israel militarily. By definition, the occupier is always much more powerful, otherwise, they wouldn't be an occupier and coloniser to begin with! Israel's very own existence as a genocidal colonial settler apartheid state hinges on its ability to maintain military supremacy over the people on whose land this colonial settler state was established.

To conclude from that though that any act of resistance is hopeless and useless is to disregard the power of human nature to fight their oppressors by all means and ability to defeat this giant colonial powers through military, economic and moral attrition.

The Palestinians are there, are going no where and are not going to give up on their land. They will continue to resist until the inevitable result: The end of the genocidal colonial settler apartheid state, like its former strong ally Apartheid South Africa.

MayJare

Israel will never stop until America stops arming it

Sufficient-Brick-188

israel can't completely eradicate palestinians because they reproduce alot and palestinians can't eradicate israel because they are much weaker. And both fight because of religious cause. So it probably will never end until someone decides to nuke them both.

Ok_Sell_5667

Death cult don't care about making sense of thier actions

Snoo36868

An armed resistance that pulls Israel into a war. One that Hamas has been able to create a situation where the IDF is unable to attack Hamas positions without killing many civilians in the process. The high civilian casualties can then be used to cry genocide that will cause international condemnation of Israel and abandonment by its allies. That is the only we Hamas can defeat/remove Israel, and it’s kinda working.

Weekly-Text-4819

Or put another way,  how is this dynamic ever going change?  You have a nuclear power against the Palestinians whose leadership seems more interested in staying in power than winning. Until there is a change in leadership on both sides this will never change.

International_Fold17

Well. Maybe. But you lost the war already. You are the person angrata of the world.  You are done.

thierham

I agree that armed resistance is unlikely to work but diplomacy wouldn't be accepted either and protesting with be met with bullets.

Anonon_990

There is about as much chance of the Palestinians defeating the people trying to build a colony on top of them as the Algerians had to defeat the colony being built on top of them.


Or the South Africans is another example.


Maybe a better example as apartheid South Africa was a nuclear armed power as well.

Secret-Look-88

Your post fails to address that in your examples. The marginalized grouos actually made attempts at diplomacy, but the powerful group eradicated the indigenous groups nonetheless. The trail of tears was America betraying deals it made to the indigenous Americans.

The story of the indigenous people in America was not a lesson for the genocided to "learn to play nice". It was a warning that if a militarily superior group comes and takes your land, there is no degree of niceness you could be that would prevent then from killing you or stealing their land.

Likewise, the PA has been capitulating to Israel, yet it hasn't stopped Israel from taking more land and displacing Palestinians in the West Bank. When Palestinians try protesting peacefully, they are met with violence.

At the end of the day, if you have denied people their rights and also denied them the ability to resist peacefully, they will always fight back violently. The fact one side is militarily superior makes no difference.

It_is_not_that_hard

I understand that the 5 Tribes are the Palestinians in your example, but a more accurate scenario would be if the 5 Tribes returned from Oklahoma and recaptured their former territory, which the US government accepted, and only a few white racists were fighting them and losing.  The Jewish people are the indigenous in Israel, not Palestinians.

The foreigners with no skin in the game who are egging Hamas on as virtue signaling share a great deal of responsibility for the bloodshed.  However, with the recent neutralization of Iran, we may see a change as Hamas can't rebuild if their main sponsor can't finance them.  Losing Syria and Hezbollah will also help.  Eventually, more Palestinian people will realize that even if they still want a Jew-free Palestine "from the river to the sea," Hamas cannot deliver that, and neither can anyone else.

shoesofwandering

Lol, this was never an option and no one believed that, even if hamas, hizballah, iran, all attacked israel at the same time, there is no threat to the existence of israel.

israel propped hamas in the 80s to fight the PLO, you can read how isrel apprehended the founder of hamas for hoarding weapons but released him when he said he wanted to use them against the PLO.

Then they propped them as a scarecrow for political gains.

Even the blockade on Gaza, didn't affect hamas, as evident in the last couple of years. It just punished the local Gazan population. Netenyahu even delivered money to hamas in bags.

Not to mention each time both hamas and the PA made talks to reconcile, israel attacked Gaza, and punished the PA (withholding tax revenues).

israel made everything possible to keep hamas in power in Gaza, and you can read about how they view hamas as an asset, while the PA as a burden. [some screenshots you can follow up on](https://imgur.com/a/aD6NUed)

israel also withdrew most of its troops from around Gaza, almost all brigades, to station them in the westbank, and October 2022 till October 2023 was the deadliest 12 months for children IN THE WESTBANK in two decades.

I hope you see the pattern here. Even now, israel refuses to even say that they will hand over Gaza's administration to the PA (I do think the PA will collapse soon because israel has been withholding the tax revenues for so long and cut the PA banking system from the rest of the world).

CheValierXP

Armed resistance isn't the point. Getting as many Palestinians killed and maximise the amount of damage so international pressure weakens Israel's and threatens Jews everywhere is Hamas goal.

They've been lucky so far that there are a lot of very stupid people who don't understand how they are being used and thus blame Israel for the suffering and not the people causing it, Hamas.

nbs-of-74

In some ways your analogy demonstrates the point.

Native Americans were proud independent tribes living freely on their land.

Now they aren't.

In part, that's because they signed agreements with the US government which the USA then broke. That is a cautionary tale for resistance movements considering doing what you clearly think they should do.

Israel also keeps breaking agreements, so why would any resistance movement disarm in return for yet another empty promise? Every time you act dishonestly, people trust you less.

Israel is in a different position to that of the US a few centuries ago. It genuinely cannot kill or expel the Palestinian people in the way Native Americans were expelled from the bulk of the USA onto the reservations.

They're there, and they're not going anywhere. They will never be driven from their ancestral homeland. The US was able to manage it because it had a vastly larger population. Israel doesn't.

So the analogy is flawed, because the endgame is intrinsically very different. The 'victory' achieved by the US over the native population is unattainable in Palestine. So Israel can go as far down the violent oppression route as it likes, but in the long run it is only harming itself.

Tallis-man

For the trail of tears analogy, some Seminole did resist. That's why there are Seminole reservations in Florida now. 

chalbersma

That has been factual since 1948 and axiomatic since 1967.

Even an idiot knows that.

Which is precisely why Palestinians are represented by people who are at the shallow end of the gene pool.

GiverOfDarwinAwards

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DeltaBot

Since nobody seemed to read the actual post where OP said This is NOT a discussion of the morality and bothered trying to change their view, I'll chime in.

I don’t think Gaza’s total destruction is the only likely outcome—just the most extreme one. A more natural and historically consistent outcome is that, over time, the Palestinian population adapts. Romantic arguments about “you can’t kill an idea” make for great slogans, but history shows people abandon causes when the costs become generationally unsustainable.

Eventually—maybe after a couple more cycles of war and displacement—the dominant will likely shift from resistance to survival. That could mean accepting a much smaller, weaker, and more fragmented version of a state—far worse than what was on the table in 1948, 1967, Oslo, 2005, or 2008. Not because it's fair, but because it’s what’s left.

Obsidian1000

I'm a lot more optimistic than yourself. Here are few things to consider -   
1) At least currently, the rate of death/removal of land isn't compatible with "wiping out Gaza". That is not to say that there aren't a lot of dead Palestinians and that is not to say that any life of a single Palestinian person aren't valuable - just that for more than a year now there are more Palestinians born in Gaza than Palestinians that died, and this is when you include Hamas militants in the calculation.  Same goes for Palestinians that left Gaza. At the start of the war a meaningful amount left, but after that not so many.  
This is not to diminish the suffering or anything, just to say that for your end to be the "likely" end, we would have to see a significant increase in those parameters.   
  
2) Majority of Israelis have showed in polls consistent support for the end of the war - and this majority grows as time progresses. (I know, some people in the comments would want to bring the one outlier poll with the poor methodology about the 82%, this is not how statistics work). This is already seen in Israel reducing the number of reservists they enlist, because many of them simply don't want to come for a war they want to end. This makes the increase from (1) significantly less likely - there is no internal support for such a move. That being said - the current Israeli gov (which according to polls loses by a large margin to its opposition) still has about a year+ left in office.

3) Lastly, IDK how close you follow the news, but there are some signs that Hamas loses its power completely. Some of these signs include the PA saying worse and worse things about Hamas (for the first time they said that October 7 was horrible), there are armed militias (that Israel helped arm - something that isn't consistent with occupying Gaza btw) that openly go against Hamas, and the Gazan protests against Hamas continue. The weaker Hamas are, the less commanders they have remaining, the better the offers that Israel is likely to get. Currently, any offer that was put on the table had Hamas remaining in some capacity in Gaza. Once this is gone - ideally it's easier to push Hamas to relinquish power and give back the hostages. If this happens - it's really hard to justify the continuation of the war - both to the Israeli public (that its opinions matter) and to the US. 

4) Lastly, notice that there are reports in recent days about Trump saying to Netanyahu he wants to see an end the war soon. Seems like Trump went back from his riviera plan.

comeon456

Why would that end the conflict?

The West Bank would still be a source of contention, and enough former-Gazian Palestinians live overseas to cause trouble at some future point.

The only end to the conflict is a diplomatic one, where both sides make concessions and find agreement over common grounds. Unfortunately, the leadership on both sides is probably going to have to change before this becomes a possibility—but it's still the only real resolution; anything else is just a pause while one side or the other regroups.

Wheloc

A one state solution is possible. Everyone can live together under a free, fair, democratic country. 

Israel supported and tolerated the religious groups that became Hamas. Their goal was to allow the religious extremist groups to gain power to squash the secular Palestinian Liberation movement. 

This just ended with the fight for Palestinians in gaza being tied to religious extremism. Which was great PR for Israel. 

However, it's not true. These are real people, both in Gaza and in Israel, who just want to live their lives. They could easily live in harmony. 

Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in the area for centuries. The modern conflicts began after the rise of Zionism, and specifically the Balfour declaration, where the British promised the Palestinians a nation if they revolted against ottomon rule, and they also promised the same area to Zionists for a Jewish state. Then European settlers started coming and in displacing natives from their homes and villages. That's when the fighting started. 

It's not impossible for them to coexist. 

This can be ended by a state where all people have equal rights, instead of the apartheid system that is currently set up. 

The issues that prevent that: 
The right of return. Palestinians aren't given the right of return to their ancestral homelands, but Jewish people who's families haven't lived their for millenia are given that right. 

Ethnonationalism: Israel is a Jewish state. That automatically puts a certain group in a higher social status than the others 

Mutual mistrust and trauma: the decades of fighting will leave lasting scars that need to be addressed to be able to allow healing. 

I don't see a reason why these issues would prevent them from being able to live together. They're certainly much better than genocide.

mddnaa

Since the prompt is to set morality aside, the simplest way to refute this is to mention that wiping out Israel would also end the conflict. Maybe some hypothetical where Iran or Russia infiltrates their nukes and sets them off in their silos?

A more realistic option though is to get peace partners on both sides. Maybe after all of this carnage, Palestinians oust Hamas (there are already protests going on now). Then, without Hamas as a boogie man, the Israeli far right loses their appeal/seats/power. Maybe whoever replaces Netanyahu and Hamas are both so sick of the carnage that they finally make a lasting peace.

Not sure how likely that is, but I think that could happen. It would require a lot of sacrifice from both sides though.

TJaySteno1

Generally speaking, Israel is willing to make peace.  They have long term peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.  They just recently negotiated a ceasefire with Lebanon.  

For gaza, there is one non-negotiable requirement, and one likely requirement to peace.  Fulfilling both would probably avert the complete destruction you anticipate.  

Non-negotiable:

The hostages simply have to be returned.  Israel is not going to agree to any peace treaty that leaves hostages in the hands of Hamas to star in some future snuff video.  

That’s not even just a Netanyahu thing.  Even if he is removed from power, any government that takes its place would have to get the hostages returned before ending the war. 

Note that any “peace first, then the hostages get returned” is not going to work.  The war will continue until the hostages or their bodies are recovered.  There is simply no way for it to end before then. 



Likely requirement:

Hamas probably cannot remain as the government.  Unlike the hostages, I think there is some wiggle room on this one.  But, most likely, Israel would prefer war than allow Hamas, which has promised to launch a similar massacre in the future, to stick around.  

So, can the conflict end without the destruction of gaza?   For sure!   They will have to return the hostages and probably surrender unconditionally. Gaza may choose mass death over surrender, Japan almost did that in WW2, but it doesn’t have to happen that way.

Knave7575

Is part of your belief that Hamas will never surrender and never accept a Jewish state alongside itself?

Ok_Owl_5403

I'm relieved that your post isn’t cheering for Gaza’s destruction - it’s wrestling with the fear that it might be the only end left. That sense of inevitability is what I want to gently challenge.

There’s a bitter irony here. The last time a superpower ended a major war with overwhelming force was America dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was framed as a necessary horror to stop a greater one, and it did end the war.

Fast forward to Gaza: over the past 18 months, more explosive force than both atomic bombs combined - an estimated 60+ kilotons, has been dropped on one of the most crowded civilian areas in the world.

But it hasn’t ended Hamas. It hasn’t ended the conflict. The suffering has multiplied, and peace feels more distant.

If annihilation worked, we’d already have peace.

What actually ended WWII wasn’t just devastation - it was what followed. America didn’t just flatten Japan - they rebuilt it, invested in it, and created the conditions for peace.

That’s never been done for Gaza.

If we truly want an end, maybe the answer is world leaders finding their humanity and investing in justice, not perpetual wars and the kind of peace that is supposedly going to exist when Gaza becomes  apartheid apartments by the sea, built on the rubble of an unmarked graveyard for children.

throwawayfem77

[deleted]

That would be contrary to a now seventy year piles of evidence of how these things generally go.

A more logical and likely outcome is a partial depopulation of the area, with an exodus to nearby regions that encompasses a substantial part of the population, with the utter collapse of any organized Palestinian command, or its reorganization around the handful of people controlling what aide is given, or the ability to take it by force.

It is unlikely that Hamas in its pre-war form will be in that role, but entirely possible that different factions of it change the label or take over different parts of it.     Its also possible that a new violent extremist group emerges with a decisive edge in internal violence use, and uses its lack of track record to be considered a temporary benign influence to the Useful Idiot class of the West. 

This isn't ethnic cleansing, it isn't genocide,  it is a rinse and repeat political pogrom, that likely will be revisited over and over for the rest of our lifetimes, until the Palestinians forsake violence.

ErieHog

Okay. While I think the ending you’ve suggested is possible, I also think it’s far from likely. Here are my reasons.

1.) Israel doesn’t want to become a pariah state. There are definitely some Israeli far-right politicians who don’t care what foreign states think of Israel, but that’s not yet the majority. And while Netanyahu has snubbed the President on occasion, it’s a thin line. 

Without American and European support, Israel would be dramatically weakened. They might be the strongest state in the region now, but a few decades down the line? Who knows. Level heads in the IDF of all places probably understand the threat international isolation poses better than Ben Gvir and his imbecilic posse.

2.) It’s too much money to continue the war indefinitely. Some kind of diplomatic agreement has to be reached, because total mobilization isn’t cheap.



The most likely solution, in my view, is another partial occupation/full occupation and a truce, not with Hamas but with some kind of puppet Palestinian authority. Kicking this can down the road has become an Israeli specialty at this point.

byzantiu

Hamas could surrender.

That always been an option. That prevent it.

Surrender has always been an option for Palestinian that they refuse to take. Take the L that they lost the war (and such lost major political capital) and decide to move on with their lives rather than try to take back what they lost.

If we take the premise that Hamas would rather all of Gaza burn then surrender to Israel, then yeah you're correct. Probably war will end with Gaza destruction.

But do you accept that premise that Palestrina people prefer death to surrender.

SnooOpinions5486

What does "wipe out" entail?
98% of Palestinians are still there after 2 years of war.


So infrastructure? Political system? Economy?

biteme4711

I will continue base on the assumption that you are only pointing out that Israel wants to complete the genocide and occupy the Gaza strip and other Palestinian lands, not endorsing or supporting their action.

* Politically speaking, Israel will most likely continue their effort because there is no opposing forces, thanks to the US' constant nays at the Security Council, if it was not Israel but another country with no lobbists paying US politicians, that country would have been bombed to oblivion two years ago.
* Militarily speaking, while Houthis are still launching missiles at Israel, but TBH it's only a nuisance at this point, and it will continue to be, base on the distance and all the arab countries that are not too keen on helping Palestine.
* Economically speaking, Israel has what it takes to keep going, of course I'm refering to the US tax dollars, while Palestine has next to nothing.
* Culturally speaking, Israel now shares the reputation of the Third-Reich and Militarist Imperial Japan, so they can't go lower, so nothing is holding them back in this regard.

It's likely Israel will continue down this path, but there is hope --

1. US will come to its senses when they realize Israel is becoming too strong in that region and starts to hurt their profit. (Not the first time, look at Al-Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Taliban, Iran, Libyan rebels, Syrian rebels, the list goes on)
2. nternational pressure, shifting regional alliances, and global public opinion can create new dynamics that force Israel and its ally to stop.
3. Palestinian people’s resilience and the broader Arab and international solidarity movements continue to exert pressure, demanding justice and a sustainable resolution.

In short, while the current trajectory appears grim, complex geopolitical realities and historical precedents suggest that total annihilation is not the only possible end. Change—though difficult—remains within the realm of possibility.

CanadianGangsta

I unfortunately think your view is not... unlikely, but we have to keep in mind that past peace breakthroughs in the region also were unfathomable before they actually occurred. Nobody thought peace between Egypt and Israel would ever be possible before the brave, extended campaign on the part of Egyptian leadership to normalize relations.

It certainly isn't guaranteed, but a unified leadership on the palestinian side, willing to embrace peace and negotiate in good faith, and with the backing of the international community could force israel into a position where they *must* negotiate peace. I have my disagreements with Israeli leadership, but historically Israel has pretty astutely responded to the political realities on the ground, whether or not those aligned with their (often distasteful) political aspirations. 

if, by some miracle, a coherent palestinian leadership emerged that was dead-set on peace, it is not unlikely that Israel would have to negotiate a peace agreement with them - just like Jordan, Egypt, and now even Saudi Arabia

I think that with proper public pressure, the US and European governments will eventually have to do less and less for Israel, until Israel is forced to make peace.

Israel’s unpopularity and waning support will eventually make it collapse.

So the only way to stop a genocide is to let the people be completely destroyed and finish the genocide? Great insight sis 🤣

rkhatri

I'll take this one step further:
The only way to achieve true peace on earth is for the human species to be wiped out entirely.

TwilightFate

If America stops giving weapons to Israel the war will end

Invinciblez_Gunner

It depends what you mean by "the annihilation of Gaza". Large swathes of the strip have been reduced to rubble at this point, and Israel is certainly in favor of large scale emigration of Gazans from the strip. I don't think they'd have the political backing to carry out forced expulsions, but you can argue that the systematic destruction of infrastructure in the strip is a tacit endorsement of ethnic cleansing (and it's not hard to find hardcore voices in Israel who proudly call for that and worse).

If what you mean by "annihilation of Gaza" is that all 2 million residents will be killed, that's nowhere near a reality. The death toll in this conflict is far below the death toll in the Russia/Ukraine war, or many other conflicts in recent history, in raw numbers. The impact on civilians is egregious, and the fact that civilians haven't been able to flee is somewhat unprecedented. When all the dust settles, and the full death toll is tabulated, I don't know if it would reach double digits in terms of percentages (ie; &gt;10%). That's just a death toll - not a casualty toll, or a psychological trauma toll.

What would it take for Israel to end the war? Bibi wants to end the war with what is seen as a decisive victory. As it stands, Israel has largely dismantled Hamas's military capabilities and commanders. They've destroyed Hezbollah, and are eyeing possible normalization of ties with Syria.  Meanwhile, there's a huge focus in Israel in dismantling Iran's nuclear program, which requires freeing up additional military resources. There's also a strong pressure internally in Israel to wrap up the war in Gaza - the economic toll is huge, the diplomatic toll has been enormous, Israelis broadly prioritize returning the hostages, and there's increasing political pressure to bring the war to an end. For example, you mentioned Trump - while it's true that America won't stop providing arms to Israel, Trump also wants to be seen as a peacemaker, and has been exerting pressure on Israel recently to bring the war to a close and declare victory.

I think you can expect that the two sides will sign an agreement somewhat soon, under the proposed "Witkoff plan". That would lead to 10 living hostages freed over the course of 60 days, and the final living hostages' release to be negotiated pending a full end to the war. Israel might make a big push to get Gazans to leave for other countries, but even if 1 million people leave (which is unlikely - nobody wants to accept Gazan refugees, especially on mass), there will still be 1 million people living in the strip.

Over the coming decade, there will be an enormous amount of money poured into reconstruction efforts. There are billions of people around the world who want to donate money to that cause, and every country in the middle east would benefit from a stable and prosperous Gaza. Obviously, that's not possible with Hamas in control, but the current deals on the table would theoretically see Hamas cede control. The political future of the conflict is uncertain, but the continued existence of Gaza is not. 

Happy to provide citations for anything you have questions about here.

MostlyAffable

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has announced a strategy to fully occupy Gaza in an effort to pressure Hamas into releasing hostages. This escalation comes as the humanitarian situation in Gaza worsens, with significant casualties reported among both Palestinians and Israelis. International calls for restraint and aid access have been made, while protests in Israel demand a ceasefire. The situation continues to evolve as military actions lead to dire consequences for civilians on both sides.

Israel Gaza Conflict

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